Need serious help with Ritual

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Need serious help with Ritual

Postby Nineborn » Sat Sep 29, 2018 5:16 pm

Hi,

I have decided that I desperately need to eliminate a VERY self destructive aspect of myself.

I have a pathological jealousy/insecurity problem with my love relationships. I have destroyed several, and currently am doing the same thing. Basically i have trouble letting go of the past. I also have pathological feelings of inferiority when I am in a relationship...I easily feel that other people are more attractive, better matches etc. It is obsessive and very destructive.

I want to work on overcoming this. I have 776 1/2, and am studying ritual construction/preliminaries. So far, Mars appears to be a correspondence that applies...the description of Magical Powers & Mystical States, line 27 "Works of Wrath, Chastisement, & Vengeance; Destruction of thoughts".

This seemed most applicable to me. I want to stop obsessing about a particular person my girlfriend used to know. Too many details about why, but i'm happy to supply them. In general, I think it has come to the point where I will continue to completely derail my life until i fix this.

Anybody with more ritual/life experience care to help me out? I feeling very desperate. Thanks.
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Re: Need serious help with Ritual

Postby mark0987 » Sun Sep 30, 2018 12:24 am

First of all, I would recommend really looking at yourself and trying to identify the root cause of your disturbance, normally anything which causes a persistent problem doesn't have a superficial root, it is normally manifesting as x, but arises from a.

I think you aren't just mentioning one problem or issue but a couple which are all directed towards your relationship. They may share a common root and it is the root you wish to tackle, or they may arise from different roots and you need to tackle them separately.

Personally, I would associate jealousy and obsession as negative traits of Venus, not Mars. If there is anger which is separate from the Jealousy that would be Mars, otherwise the anger is more symptomatic.

Sample Ritual 9 in 776 is a brilliant ritual for your purposes, it even has a Mars example. If you decide Venus is more applicable then you would simply rewrite the Mars parts of the ritual, so The Empress card instead of the tower, you would use appropriate visualizations etc.

You cannot destroy these impulses, it doesn't work like that. If it did, life would be so much easier. It is about identifying these energies, these psychological impulses, extracting them and then reintegrating them into the whole so that they work with you and not against you. Too much jealousy is an issue, just enough can be a driving force to better yourself.
"Anybody who has been seriously engaged in scientific work of any kind realises that over the entrance to the gates of the temple of science are written the words: 'Ye must have faith.'"

-Max Planck
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Re: Need serious help with Ritual

Postby Nineborn » Sun Sep 30, 2018 12:33 am

mark0987 wrote:First of all, I would recommend really looking at yourself and trying to identify the root cause of your disturbance, normally anything which causes a persistent problem doesn't have a superficial root, it is normally manifesting as x, but arises from a.

I think you aren't just mentioning one problem or issue but a couple which are all directed towards your relationship. They may share a common root and it is the root you wish to tackle, or they may arise from different roots and you need to tackle them separately.

Personally, I would associate jealousy and obsession as negative traits of Venus, not Mars. If there is anger which is separate from the Jealousy that would be Mars, otherwise the anger is more symptomatic.

Sample Ritual 9 in 776 is a brilliant ritual for your purposes, it even has a Mars example. If you decide Venus is more applicable then you would simply rewrite the Mars parts of the ritual, so The Empress card instead of the tower, you would use appropriate visualizations etc.

You cannot destroy these impulses, it doesn't work like that. If it did, life would be so much easier. It is about identifying these energies, these psychological impulses, extracting them and then reintegrating them into the whole so that they work with you and not against you. Too much jealousy is an issue, just enough can be a driving force to better yourself.



hey Mark thanks for your reply. I wonder what a "root" of a problem really is. I never know what to make of it when someone suggest i get to the root. I just know that i get very possesive, easily jealous and controlling when i get into a relationship..and naturally the women in my life hate it. Im 31, and it may be from a period in my mid 20's where i developed some pretty ant-women attitudes...and studied the so called "nature" of women in depth from various blogs and articles written by an underground movement of men trying to improve their success with women. Mostly angry, bitter guys i suppose. I just generally don't trust women, and i am afraid to. I dont know if this is considered the root.
Last edited by Nineborn on Sun Sep 30, 2018 1:37 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Need serious help with Ritual

Postby mark0987 » Sun Sep 30, 2018 1:17 am

I can't identify your root, it is what a good psychotherapist can do. I am a big believer that our adult relationships are largely defined by the relationships we experience as a child. This could mean your relationship with your own mother or primary caregiver, your perception of your parent's relationship etc.

You have already stated more information which seems truer- originally it was a jealousy problem, now you have admitted it is a trust problem, and further still, you realise this stems from fear. The question now is what are you afraid of? Why have you got a fear of trusting women and why are you afraid your partners will go elsewhere?

Meditating on these issues can be enlightening, I believe Jim offers examples of what should be done as preliminaries in the sample ritual in 776, follow those.
"Anybody who has been seriously engaged in scientific work of any kind realises that over the entrance to the gates of the temple of science are written the words: 'Ye must have faith.'"

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Re: Need serious help with Ritual

Postby Nineborn » Sun Sep 30, 2018 1:35 am

mark0987 wrote:First of all, I would recommend really looking at yourself and trying to identify the root cause of your disturbance, normally anything which causes a persistent problem doesn't have a superficial root, it is normally manifesting as x, but arises from a.

I think you aren't just mentioning one problem or issue but a couple which are all directed towards your relationship. They may share a common root and it is the root you wish to tackle, or they may arise from different roots and you need to tackle them separately.

Personally, I would associate jealousy and obsession as negative traits of Venus, not Mars. If there is anger which is separate from the Jealousy that would be Mars, otherwise the anger is more symptomatic.

Sample Ritual 9 in 776 is a brilliant ritual for your purposes, it even has a Mars example. If you decide Venus is more applicable then you would simply rewrite the Mars parts of the ritual, so The Empress card instead of the tower, you would use appropriate visualizations etc.

You cannot destroy these impulses, it doesn't work like that. If it did, life would be so much easier. It is about identifying these energies, these psychological impulses, extracting them and then reintegrating them into the whole so that they work with you and not against you. Too much jealousy is an issue, just enough can be a driving force to better yourself.


Interesting, i did a bit of searching and found someone listing the qualities associated with the planets.

i see your point in the venus aspect. Maybe i did not go into enough detail with my complex, but Jupiter really seems to fit what i realllly struggle with. I quote this from another thread

Saturn: tendency (often unconscious) to seek total control of situations & relationships. Parent-themed issues (nourishment-deprivation). Pessimism, distrust, little self-confidence, passive-aggressiveness, feeling inferior, anxiety, depression, self-sacrifice. Wounded pride, loss, feeling misunderstood. Increased security needs. Others seem unsympathetic, vulnerability and over-responsiveness to the harsh, demanding, unsupportive facets of one's environment. Security needs emphasized (tenacious, possessive, needs roots; material ownership is basis for security; resists ending toxic relationships). Emotionally exhausting experiences (depression, sad feelings, frustration, resignation, psychosomatic illness). Being insensitive/unresponsive to others’ feelings and needs (being uncommunicative, blocking others’ free emotional expression). Space/time sensitive. Feeling inferior or inadequate (one’s own shortcomings emphasized; anxiety, waning confidence). Self-punishing. Holding own feelings in check (need to “be strong” precludes active feeling involvement). Guilt and shame in general.

Also, Mars really fits the bill also:

Mars: Impatience, irritability, reactionary behaviour, overbearing sexual needs. Reactive to criticism; intolerance; argumentativeness. Emotional aggression. Inciting of an emotional response in another. Tendency to pick on others, and to seek out their vulnerabilities. Issues involving the (lack of) control of anger, occurrences of needless arguments, preoccupation of memories of others hurting one in the past, intrusive thoughts of violence or desires for revenge, misplaced / difficulties controlling aggression and competitiveness, perhaps even sexual frustration or some forms of fear which hinder ambition.

I definitely have intense revenge fantasies that are extremely violent, and I get obsessed with how a few people have wronged me, including my girlfriend at the moment. However, i dont think its healthy.

For venus: Venus: inability to accept the full scope of one's femininity. Insecurity, passive-dependent nature, moodiness, being blindsided by strong feelings, stemming from insufficiently accepting the full scope of one's femininity.

Im not sure i resonate as strongly with this one. I am a newbie to ritual though so im open to your suggestion. I definitely resonate with the Saturn one though, thats pretty on the money.
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Re: Need serious help with Ritual

Postby mark0987 » Sun Sep 30, 2018 2:41 am

My classifications will not be your classifications, I agree that Saturn is certainly more fitting for controlling behaviour, your issue is not just one issue but stems from several. Working on these issues, these socialisations, and self-created demons are a life-long work and won't be remedied by one ritual. It takes work and you would perform several rituals after doing further work after each one. That is a wordy explanation, I can only tell you what my approach is with this ritual. Jealousy in love stems from Venus for me because of personal work I have experienced regarding Venus, also my love life is different to your love life. I also see it as stemming from Netzach in general. But my qabalah is not your qabalah, the tree of life isn't universal, it is a glyph which you map your own experiences on to over time.

The associations will only work if your mind speaks those associations or has learned its own language. That is the whole reason for correspondences that we have a language the unconscious can speak. Reading a good astrology primer will help you with these correspondences, as will mythology.

I would identify a problem in my life as expressed by an unhealthy behaviour. I analyse this problem and get to the root of that issue, where does it stem from? When can I first remember feeling that way? What memories pop up as associations? After a lengthy time of doing this I can normally identify at least one factor, but more often than not I can identify multiple.

I then see which ones are bigger factors and which ones are factors by association. So if your controlling behavior is really a symptom of your jealous nature (It may not be, I wouldn't know because I don't know your mind). It is, therefore, logical to tackle the jealousy first, then the controlling later. There's no point pulling the leaves of a weed and allowing the root to remain.

If you are a newbie to ritual, perhaps it would be best to first learn more about general techniques first before you start messing with your psyche? Simply by meditating on your issues, keeping a journal, and practicing regular hygiene rituals, you will probably see a difference over time. Meditation is also overlooked, the ability to still your mind and gently push aside intrusive thoughts is so helpful and can be introduced into everyday life over time.

I can't comment on other people's journies, but I will say that I have come to the realisation that a lot of my own issues stemmed from various fears, meditating on this fear and exploring it has helped me a thousand-fold. In fact, I would say once I started taking the Great Work seriously the first 3 years of my work was working through my own stuff. I found the LBRP helped, I found that meditation helped, i found that specifically meditating on fear helped, and Jim's ritual helped. However, the ritual was only useful once I understood what the problem was and put in the work to unravel it. This particular ritual, for me, was simply a way of aligning my own unconscious forces with what my conscious Self perceived as the Will at that time. It is a way of ensuring that part of yourself which you have no control over is aware of what you want and is not working against you out of habit.

Again, just my thoughts, others will disagree.

Above all,

Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law.
"Anybody who has been seriously engaged in scientific work of any kind realises that over the entrance to the gates of the temple of science are written the words: 'Ye must have faith.'"

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Re: Need serious help with Ritual

Postby Takamba » Tue Oct 02, 2018 6:19 am

This is kind of like walking into a psychotherapist convention and yelling that you want a treatment for a problem you haven't accurately had diagnosed yet.

I recommend you learn astrology. I recommend the series known as "The Only Way to Learn Astrology" by Joan McEvers and Marion D March. Volumes one through three (four through seven won't be needed unless you're interested in the further work on Astrology). At the very least, casting your own natal chart and going over it with a fine-tooth comb (your intellect) will have you answering all sorts of questions for yourself and also finding out which questions you've not known to ask of yourself.

Do that. Forget the farmacy of rituals available, go within. You sent me a private message about this thread and your need. This is my complete answer.
"If we are to have Beauty and Love, whether in begetting children or works of art, or what not, we must have perfect freedom to act, without fear or shame or any falsity."
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Re: Need serious help with Ritual

Postby LD330 » Sat Oct 06, 2018 2:47 pm

I think you are repressing Lacan's object a. Object a is "a void presupposed by a demand." This is your jealousy. Object a is connected with semblance and representation.

There is no discourse that is not a semblance, there is no Other of the Other, there is no such thing as a sexual relationship.

The discourse that might not be a semblance is "There is no discourse that is not a semblance."

The sexual relationship doesn't stop not being written. This is your repression.

Given the whole and the not-whole, the universe is the place in which, due to the fact of speaking, everything succeeds- that is, succeeds in making the sexual relationship fail in the male manner.

From the ladies' side, it is on the basis of the elaboration of the not-whole that one must break new ground. Were there another jouissance than phallic jouissance (feminine jouissance), it shouldn't be/could never fail to be that one. This jouissance speaks, and the first effect of speaking is that is speaks of something else. It makes you capable of serving some purpose, since you don't know how to enjoy otherwise than to be enjoyed or duped, because it is the jouissance that shouldn't be/could never fail.

There is no such thing as a sexual relationship and there is no Other of the Other.

The Real cannot be written. There is no discourse that is not a semblance. The Real is impossible. The Real of jouissance is impossible.

Of interest may be Lacan's four discourses, notably hysteria and the master's discourse: https://www.google.com/search?q=lacan+hysteria+matheme&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiyxOCF6_LdAhVCx1kKHcAaBf8Q_AUIDygC&biw=1920&bih=969#imgrc=fVX9shFLe8nrZM:
"People in this world look at things mistakenly, and think that what they do not understand must be the void. This is not the true void. It is bewilderment."
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