The making of a probationers robe.

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Re: The making of a probationers robe.

Postby Christeos Luciftias » Sun Dec 05, 2010 11:24 am

I heard something similar about the Probationers robe.
I was informed categorically that if my Probationers robe did not conform to some secret design that the teller would not disclose then the the lineage was not genuine.
To me this sounds like a lot of B******t but some people take these things very seriously.
as far as I am concerned the robe designs from liber vesta would be sufficient, otherwise why would they be in an official libri of the A.'.A.'.?
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Re: The making of a probationers robe.

Postby Jim Eshelman » Sun Dec 05, 2010 11:46 am

It isn't an official liber of A.'.A.'.. Liber Vesta didn't exist until a few years ago. It is a new document prepared by its publishers.

I believe it was created sincerely, from the best information its authors could find at the time. However, either this was only briefly correct, or at least Crowley significantly changed it in the 20 years following. I base this on a page Israel Regardie allowed me to copy, which he had typed for Crowley while serving as his secretary.

However, for the Probationer's robe, there has never been any doubt - for that one, Liber Vesta and my list from Regardie and remarks in Liber VIII all agree. I wouldn't trust anyone claiming a secret esoteric version of it that differs from this one design.

PS - Picking Crowley's Adeptus Minor motto for your online handle?
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Re: The making of a probationers robe.

Postby Christeos Luciftias » Sun Dec 05, 2010 12:59 pm

I didnt know that vespa was a recent addition, thanks for the info.
I got the online handle from J D Gunthers book, once I looked it up and found out what it meant I took a liking to it.
I suppose no-one ever used Perdurabo as a handle?:)

as regards to the robe question, I think I'll just ignore the nay sayers and get on with the work, it just annoys me that these little quibbles keep coming up between so called Lineages.
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Re: The making of a probationers robe.

Postby Zoasa » Sun Dec 12, 2010 11:31 pm

I think I asked this question some where else. What type of cloth should be used for the robe?
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And what beauty does it Bring?
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Re: The making of a probationers robe.

Postby Jim Eshelman » Sun Dec 12, 2010 11:57 pm

fnewburn4236 wrote:I think I asked this question some where else. What type of cloth should be used for the robe?

There's no absolute requirement. Traditionally, magical robes have been made from linen or silk, but those often prove impractical.

From a practical angle, a light-weight wool-cotton blend is very nice, wears well, etc.
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Re: The making of a probationers robe.

Postby Zoasa » Mon Dec 13, 2010 12:24 am

Jim Eshelman wrote:
fnewburn4236 wrote:I think I asked this question some where else. What type of cloth should be used for the robe?

There's no absolute requirement. Traditionally, magical robes have been made from linen or silk, but those often prove impractical.

From a practical angle, a light-weight wool-cotton blend is very nice, wears well, etc.


I appreciate this information… as for no absolute requirement does that mean I can use anything for the gold, pentacle and hexagram … like shiny material?
Ah the darkness of the night.
Do I understand that it is still light?
And what beauty does it Bring?
None... Unless it is within.

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Title "The Last Ritual"
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Re: The making of a probationers robe.

Postby Jim Eshelman » Mon Dec 13, 2010 5:59 am

fnewburn4236 wrote:
Jim Eshelman wrote:
fnewburn4236 wrote:I think I asked this question some where else. What type of cloth should be used for the robe?

There's no absolute requirement. Traditionally, magical robes have been made from linen or silk, but those often prove impractical.

From a practical angle, a light-weight wool-cotton blend is very nice, wears well, etc.

I appreciate this information… as for no absolute requirement does that mean I can use anything for the gold, pentacle and hexagram … like shiny material?

The gold braid usually would be metallic (though some choose a nonmetallic gold ribbon or braid). The pentagram and hexagram... there's no exact specification. (Vivid colors are usually thought desirable, so felt is often used.) BTW I assume you know that several pictures of the Probationer's robe survive from a hundred years ago.
Love is the law, love under will.
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Re: The making of a probationers robe.

Postby Zoasa » Mon Dec 13, 2010 12:57 pm

Thanks Much 8) :angel:
Ah the darkness of the night.
Do I understand that it is still light?
And what beauty does it Bring?
None... Unless it is within.

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Title "The Last Ritual"
Subtitle "Putting the Signs and Symbols together and discovering The Basic Law"
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Re: The making of a probationers robe.

Postby AEternitas1 » Fri Dec 17, 2010 2:10 pm

It doesn't make sense to me that the design of the robe would have a blind in it. Do people think this is a Crowley blind or a modern blind? I dont get it. Crowley's blinds served the purpose of making you think where they were presented as riddles in his writing, I don't see why he would intentionally have his probationers dressed in the wrong attire. Thats about as weak an argument as Skinner saying that the Golden Dawn atrributions of the elemental tools was a blind on their part. Why would they have their adepts making the tools in the wrong manner?
Sometimes it seems like people just want to come off as vague as possible so people believe they know some real worthwhile secrets. A secret robe design doesn't seem like a real worthwhile secret to me and doesn't mean a whole lot.
Jim, thanks for the simple as hell how to robe making instructions, I may do that, but fold the material in half again and measure it from one half of my body so that I can get each side symmetrical. I've wanted a robe for a long time, the only instructions I've seen for one came from those goofballs the Ciciero's and it seemed overly complex and ones I've seen online are way too spendy, even for a nice ceremonial robe.
Now I need to figure out a way to make a nice big hood for it too.
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Re: The making of a probationers robe.

Postby Jim Eshelman » Fri Dec 17, 2010 2:26 pm

For the hood, use two of the four triangles that you cut from under the arms.
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Re: The making of a probationers robe.

Postby __THE_HERMIT__ » Tue Feb 08, 2011 7:09 pm

Just curious has there ever been any distinction between the robes of male and female practitioners?

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Re: The making of a probationers robe.

Postby Avshalom Binyamin » Tue Feb 08, 2011 9:58 pm

From what I have heard, the female's robes generally contain females; and the male's robes generally contain males. But not always.
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Re: The making of a probationers robe.

Postby Frater MVKDSh » Tue Feb 08, 2011 10:30 pm

haha:)
26. My God! Let Thy secret fang pierce to the marrow of the little secret bone that I have kept against the Day of Vengeance of Hoor-Ra. Let Kheph-Ra sound his sharded drone! let the jackals of Day and Night howl in the wilderness of Time! let the Towers of the Universe totter, and the guardians hasten away! For my Lord hath revealed Himself as a mighty serpent, and my heart is the blood of His body.
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Re: The making of a probationers robe.

Postby nashimiron » Thu Feb 10, 2011 2:46 am

It's all a question of proportions.

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Re: The making of a probationers robe.

Postby sesheta156 » Tue Jul 05, 2011 4:24 pm

Jim Eshelman wrote:The gold braid usually would be metallic (though some choose a nonmetallic gold ribbon or braid). The pentagram and hexagram... there's no exact specification. (Vivid colors are usually thought desirable, so felt is often used.) BTW I assume you know that several pictures of the Probationer's robe survive from a hundred years ago.


93 - i have *exactly* that ? about what material is used for the pentagram and hexagram... i was thinking satin was in order, but found some of the colors available at the store weren't what i was looking for (in terms of shade). so, your recommendation is FELT?
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Re: The making of a probationers robe.

Postby Archaeus » Tue Jul 05, 2011 10:11 pm

sesheta156 wrote:
Jim Eshelman wrote:The gold braid usually would be metallic (though some choose a nonmetallic gold ribbon or braid). The pentagram and hexagram... there's no exact specification. (Vivid colors are usually thought desirable, so felt is often used.) BTW I assume you know that several pictures of the Probationer's robe survive from a hundred years ago.


93 - i have *exactly* that ? about what material is used for the pentagram and hexagram... i was thinking satin was in order, but found some of the colors available at the store weren't what i was looking for (in terms of shade). so, your recommendation is FELT?


Actually you can use Red ribbon for the pentagram, red and blue for the hexagram, and the same gold ribbon as you use for the trim can be used to make the Tau cross, that's what I used and the result turned out pretty good.
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Re: The making of a probationers robe.

Postby Alien696 » Mon Oct 08, 2012 4:19 am

There is a problem with felt though.. as when it get's wet it starts to leak it's colour into the surrounding cloth.
We are making a probationer's robe here and we use "band".
Sorry that i don't know the english word.
Oh and i intend to use the names on the sides of the stone on the tau cross in hebrew.
I also am fidding around with the idea of doing pentagrammaton for the pentagram on the front.
Is that ok you guys and gals think?
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Re: The making of a probationers robe.

Postby Jim Eshelman » Mon Oct 08, 2012 5:25 am

It's no longer an A.'.A.'. Robe if u do that. It's something else.
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Re: The making of a probationers robe.

Postby Archaeus » Mon Oct 08, 2012 9:46 am

Best to just follow your neophyte's instructions.

If you don't have a neophyte then do as you Will, but as Jim says, it won't be a Probationers robe.
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Re: The making of a probationers robe.

Postby Alien696 » Sat Dec 29, 2012 7:00 am

Ok.

In the end i left things as they are.
without the hebrew symbolism connected to the hexagram or pentagram.
And went with the standard.
But such a standard does not necessarily exist in regards the circle right?
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Re: The making of a probationers robe.

Postby Jim Eshelman » Sat Dec 29, 2012 10:37 am

You mean your personal magick circle? You can do that however you see fit. (Or not at all. I almost never use a formal circle, other than for very specific types of operations such as evocation.
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Re: The making of a probationers robe.

Postby Thelemic oz » Mon Aug 18, 2014 10:38 pm

Check out
http://www.azothart.com/cgi-bin/main.pl?PAGE=52



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Re: The making of a probationers robe.

Postby augur » Wed May 09, 2018 10:35 am

I have found it useful to know what I am good at, develop areas where the skills are useful for my life, and employ professionals where neither of those things are true.

Jim's instructions on how to make simple Tau Robe are solid, I have used the methodology. I now pay professionals when there is a need for a Robe.
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